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It sounds to me like your pissing on the .308, something MANY snipers would disagree with as well. APR Maverick 22 Creedmoor - Alamo Precision Rifles With all that being said I dont think the 22 CM will have any problems making clean kills on deer size game out to 400-450 yards with solid shot placement. I then send those pieces of fired brass off to Whidden Gunworks to have a custom full length sizer and micrometer seater die set made. The same with rifles. We suggest the 75gr Hornady ELD-M as the ideal projectile for this caliber, If you choose to run the 88gr Hornady, 90gr Hornady, Sierra or Berger, or the 95gr Sierra PLEASE note your rifle should have a freebore of .120 or more. At 7000 grains per pound and my "normal load" being 42.2 grains. You guys all using 6 Creedmoor dies with different bushings? Didn't think I'd ever say that over my weatherby's but it's true. I kept the barrel short to run a suppressor. The area of the chamber just forward of the web on the original [] 22 Creedmoor Versatile Varmint and Tactical Cartridge I'm going to try out 22x47L once this barrel is toast. Getting to 22CM from 6CM is a straight forward pass through a FL die. 22 Creedmoor is badass. With a CCI200 primer I got the following with an 82 grain Berger. As a sponsored shooter, Jeff has represented notable industry names such as: Benelli, 5.11 Tactical, Bushnell, Blackhawk, DoubleStar, and Hornady. In front of me was a dry wash I could see deer enter it on one end and pop out about 100 yards in front of me. The bullet diameter is .224, the same as any other .22 centerfire cartridge like the 223 Rem., 22-250 Rem., 224 Weatherby Magnum, 223 WSSM and 220 Swift. Mark I shoot a 22-6mm rem which is a touch faster but very similar in performance. The fact that several vendors are manufacturing 22 CM brass certainly makes handloading simpler. A new, stainless steel barrel finished and installed should run you from about $500 to $1,000 depending on length, contour, brand, and who's doing the installation. Mine is throated long, twisted fast and loaded hot but I'm able to sling 95gr SMKs at 3200fps from a 22 inch tube with H4350. So I'm wondering if your guys are getting that number? Taking a quick look at how the 22 CM compares to some other cartridges will shine a light on its potential. The area of the chamber just forward of the web on the original [], The 6mm BRX vs 6mm BR The 6mm BRX uses 6mm BR brass as the base brass. The Cross Timbersor Yukon, OK, whichever blo, Savage Small Shank Barrels 6.5 Creed 7 SAUM, PROOF TL3/Origin 6.5 Creedmoor 22" w/Hunts Lug, Noob question regarding making 22 creedmoor brass from 6 or 6.5 CM brass. ---Craddock Precision, Twist Options 1:7 and 1:12 (throated specific to twist), 3 Contours based on the most popular gas blocks:.750", .875", and .936", Threads: 1/2-28, 5/8x24, 3/4x24, or No Threads all with a 11 Target Crown, Polished or Bead Blasting included, Cerakote Available, Several Fluting Styles (Allow 1-2 more weeks for Fluting). Never Dock after all of this three and a half years of what was basically partying at the governments expense..so I left the Navy. While barrel life many not be financially concerning for many shooters around the world, it is still good to understand roughly how long your barrel may last until precision starts to decline. My main 26" barrel is pushing 80gr Berger's at 3525fps and is relentless inside 800yds. All with R26. It would be nice if you could just stick to the facts instead of trying to inflate performance by straight up lying about 308. a 168gr 308 at 500yards, is over 1100ft/lbs, did you get your data from Wikipedia? The point of this wildcat is to use heavy for caliber bullets, which most if not all of the old 22s cannot do. What is the MSP. 22 Creedmoor - Copper Creek Cartridge Co. I was able to get a very consistent load with an 80gr Berger VLD Target in the 3450fps range that produced 45 firings on the brass. This against a lot of critique among seasoned shooters and [], There are multiple different case head sizes for the various cartridges. The last deer I shot I tucked right inside the shoulder blade as he was quartering towards me and it completely destroyed the opposite lung. Being based off the 6.5 CM cartridge case, the 22 CM runs in short action rifles and feeds smoothly from SA magazines produced by many manufacturers. I just decided to build a 22-250. The following chart displays accurate barrel life data for a number of popular rifle cartridges. These cartridges include (from left) the .22-250 Remington, .22 Creedmoor and .22-250 Ackley Improved. Went with the Nosler's because of availability and price. A 308 Hornady ELD 168 grain has about 1360 ft-lbs of energy at 500 yards. I mailed out my barreled action to long rifles inc to be converted. Everyone has a different take on what they consider acceptable accuracy which will increase or decrease the numbers. Most shooters first roll their eyes when hearing you say you have a 22 Creedmoor, just hearing the word Creedmoor, but they often do a double take a second or two later and ask, 22?. Springfield Armory 2020 Waypoint - For Sale - New :: Guns.com A barrels life expectancy is caliber dependant, and may range anywhere from 1000 rounds to 6000 rounds or more. Putting an additional 14 grains of powder behind the same bullet and bumping pressure up another 2,000 psi cuts barrel life in half. When did the 30-30 change from a brush gun to a 200 plus yard tack driver?? Regardless of the barrel length you . My buddy has one. I can not speak to the virtures of Alpha brass, but I haven't heard any complaints about their other offerings. The reason this cartridge stood out in the first round hit study, is because these heavy for caliber bullets have relatively high ballistic coefficients, and can be launched at fast speeds resulting in less wind and elevation corrections being required. The choice will depend on the individual user and the quality of Alpha brass. Most shooters first roll their eyes when hearing you say you have a 22 Creedmoor, just hearing the word Creedmoor, but they often do a double take a second or two later and ask, 22?. I HAVE shot the bbls out a a few older models, which is WHY I went to the 22-250. Shooting heavier bullets at more reasonable velocities also calms some barrel-burning qualms. The only thing needed is a fast twist barrel to stabilize the long, high BC bullets; 1 x 7 7.5 twist. The 22 CM drops below that 800 ft-lb threshold at between 600 to 775 yards depending on the bullet and velocity of Copper Creek's different offerings. The Best Wildcat Centerfire Cartridges | Outdoor Life I first heard of it from a friend that said the 22 CM came in the top 3 in a first-round hit capability study he had read. Starting with a .260" bushing on the first pass and finishing with a .250" will often work quite well. Depending on size of the game hunted, but generally you will often hear most industry authorities recommending 6mm, 243 Win, 270 Win for any smaller CXP2 type antelope, and 30-06 Spingfield or larger for CXP3 medium to large game. The Springfield Armory Waypoint 2020 rifle is an exceptionally accurate rifle. Please keep this thread to actual reloading information, and if you can please post some round count, barrel life numbers are all over the place. At 4100, it was about the best shooting 308 barrel I've ever had. The original 6XC chambering was designed based off the usage of 22-250 brass which typically has a web diameter in the range of .461-.463. But also dont over-clean your rifle; only clean when necessary. A 22 Creedmoor for deer will work as well as any 6mm or 6.5mm caliber, and sometimes even beter out at longer distances. Here's the relative bullet diameters for these three Creedmoors: 6mm: 0.243. Buy and Sell on GunsAmerica! Both these rounds are considered fantastic for long-range shooting. You are using an out of date browser. I believe they will be doing a full production run of 22 Creedmoor in the next 45-60 days if not sooner. I took many deer with that rifle with an 87gr. 22 Creedmoor :: Primal Rights, Inc .22 CREEDMOOR EXCLUSIVE - Magzter You've earned the right to shop tax free and enjoy FREE shipping! Tried some new powders, I was very cautious on this lot and will be bumping the charge up after this batch. Getting to 22CM from 6CM is a straight forward pass through a FL die. The first of these wildcats to make it to the big league was the 6mm Creedmoor; now a SAAMI approved cartridge with rifles offered by many manufacturers. My opinion of the matter is as it has been for many years. I truly dont believe a senseable person would use ANY .22 caliber rifle for deer hunting. They wouldnt allow me to stay on shore duty if I re-enlisted I didnt really want to end up o the U.S.S. Cooper Creek, Gunwerks, and Spark Munitions have a variety of offerings depending on what purpose you have for the gun. I have all the necessary dies and a good sample of bullets to try it out with. Increased barrel life compared to 6mm Creedmoor. bullets and fast twist rifling, usually 1:8 or even 1:7.5. With long range precision shooting becoming increasingly popular amongst rifle owners throughout the world, barrel life expectancy is often a question of concern, particularly amongst new buyers. Not a trace of it. 22 creedmoor is SUPERIOR to 22-250 AND 220 swift. When the rifle is fired, the explosive heat and pressure from the propellant gasses begin to erode the throat of the barrels interior surface. Bullets 1-8 twist. Full house loads in 7-pound rifles recoil with about 15.7 ft.-lbs. How To Identify a Barrel Burner Rifle Ron Spomer Outdoors There are hunters, also within the hunting culture, who specialize in one element of hunting or another. In the recent few years, it feels like a new rifle cartridge is coming out almost monthly. More importantly, why all the fuss? Copper creek will have it along with loaded ammo using the 75gn Hornady eldm. For a sub-MOA barrel, many shooters report a loss in peak accuracy for 28 Nosler around the 800-round mark, while a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel can hold accuracy until around 2,000-2,500 rounds on average. Federal and CCI offerings are most popular. The need to find a cartridge that performs better under that very particular scenario comes with this niche emphasis. That just isn't a thing in Creedmoor land. For PRS you dont actually need all the speed the 22 CM has to offer from longer barrels. With the exponential advancement in technology and growth of information it is only natural the shooting industry is using this information and technology to unlock more cartridge and bullet performance. Out of stock. No doubt it could be run hotter, but I don't believe the 22 Creedmoor should be ran above 3500fps with an 80gr, even with this amazing brass from Alpha Munitions. I stopped buying them after a while..its just repeating over and over. I just wanted to see if I had enough H4350 on hand to burn out my barrel. Now we have Alpha Munitions producing factory 22 Creedmoor brass, and the stage is set for a complete takeover of the big 22cal scene. Because of the velocities achieved by the 22 Creedmoor out of most barrel lengths, many varmint shooter favor a 22 Creedmoor short barrel rifle for ease of handling but still offering varmint velocities. I'm not worrying about getting a new barrel at the moment. You need to know that it is a laser beam and varmint vaporizer! 25 caliber: 0.257 ". Laugh! Most 22-250s will burn out the throat of the barrel in 1500 - 2000 rounds depending on how it's shot. Leaning toward the more conservative number of 1300 ft-lbs, the same 22 CM bullets combinations are good out to 300- 400 yards. The cartridge and rifle perform well with my handloads or the factory available ammunition. PRS, Ive heard of guys blowing up 90 and 95 smks with 6.5 twist barrels. Well I pulled the trigger, pun intended, on the 22 creedmoor. Shooting the Breeze: The fast-twist 22 Creedmoor It's definitely a fun little barrel burner, but I think the brass is the biggest downfall for me. I did group it against one with far less rounds and it did not group as well. The good news is thatHornady, Peterson, Gunwerks, Atlas Development Group (ADG) and Alpha Munitions are all selling factory brass now, so no more necking down the 6 CM for me. Clean kill yes indeed, but not a pretty sight. .22-250. Allow extra time for your barrel to cool between shots, and avoid rapid or sustained fire where possible. I bought some Peterson 6 Creed brass ( seems to be very good brass) and have been trying to use RL26 with CCI 400 AND 450 primers and it's been very unfulfilling with wild velocity swings. Similarly, there are no big-name ammunition companies loading for the 22 CM, but there are several smaller companies offering ammunition so you dont have to reload at all. Note: the following data does not necessarily demonstrate the most accurate load (or node), but rather demonstrates how barrel wear can be reduced by altering the propellant load. We would even recommend it above 6mm competition calibers in precision shooting matches under 800 yards other than PRS matches with their 3,200 fps limit. But the stand was in the middle of a little woods. This also creates a different beast altogether, including higher maximum pressures (based on SAMMI 6mm CM numbers). I'm about to replace the barrel in this rifle after approximately 800 rounds. You are quite wrong about using 22s for medium sized game. I thought that might be the case just wanted to confirm. Looking forward to using it for predators. Interest is then sparked. I thought my barrel was toast with around 900 rounds but I shot this yesterday at 100. They could be into competition shooting and need a cartridge that will give them a competitive advantage. The 22 Creedmoor was built with long, heavy .224 bullets in mind. How ever those were heavy barrels on the rifles, I mainly now have sporter barrels on all I have with the exception of the Ruger American Predators, I have Three, there barrels are a bit heavier then the sports as Im sure you all ready know. One of the easiest ways is to select a cartridge load that does not necessarily produce the fastest muzzle velocity, but rather considers barrel life versus effective range and stopping power; settling on a favourable compromise. This one has my attention. The accuracy nodes are wide and forgiving, the feeding is boringly reliable, and the performance out in the world has been dominating. So I was reading this article that says barrel life on a 6.5 Creedmoor is about 2500 rounds. Sep 30, 2004. A chronograph for example, mostly only a rare expensive piece of laboratory technology a few decades ago, is now part of almost every precision shooter and reloaders equipment, and a very affordable one at that. I have plenty like that..including my original model 73 Winchester in .38-40! The 22 Creedmoor trim length for cases is 1.910. My memories of my military time make me smile.. 168 SMKs dont have only 410 ft-lbs of muzzle energy at 500 yards. This may continue until eventually the rifling is not longer able to stabilise the bullet, and you will notice sideways impacts of the bullet on targets at all distances, even those placed not far from the muzzle. I know guys that run anything from 22-26" barrels, 1-6.5 to 1-7 is what you'll need for the heaviest bullets. starting my build and have decided on this caliber. The ability of the heavy .224 bullets to retain both velocity and energy at long distances makes this . Required fields are marked *. Just FYI. Making brass from 6mm creedmoor is simple and quick. That's five shots. I can actually smell the heat. I am having the action trued up and will be bedding it into either a Savage laminate stock or an H-S Precision composite stock. Bullet diameter.224, Shoulder angle30 degrees, Rim diameter.468, Case length1.92 inches, Primer typeLarge and small. Im not saying the 22 CM is anywhere close to becoming a big factory rifle/cartridge offering any time soon; but it is gaining industry support, with brass, dies, ammunition on the market. We had unlimited access, unlimited use, unlimited quantity of ammunition, fired rounds at night, morning, afternoon, black sky, full moon, rain, fog, cold, hot>>> yada yada yada..we had an awful lot of fun just chewing up ammunition and testing all that we could. With a wide selection of bullets and factory brass available, all thats needed is reloading dies to put it all together, and with reloading dies now available from major sources such as RCBS, Hornady, Redding, and Whidden, the 22 CMs seems on the rise. 22 Creedmoor - what are your thoughts? | Long Range Only Barrel life, according to most precision shooters is basically the number of rounds expected before the rifle shows inaccuracy of more than one MOA. I intend to use 83 gr Hammer or 75 gr Swift bullets. Well, the good news is the 22 CM seems to have all the energy needed for the task. I had a stand at the top of a rocky hill, surrounded by field. While some think that energy is not the all-important factor and cite archery and sub-sonic hog hunting as an example; really cant argue that either. I know guys that run anything from 22-26" barrels, 1-6.5 to 1-7 is what you'll need for the heaviest bullets. This so far is the oldest actual documented mention of it, but with the image of the cartridge loaded and shot on range from McWorter Custom Rifles showing them as the oldest actual documented builder of a rifle able to shoot it. Features & Specifications Remington 700 Action, Cylindrically Ground (Converted to Side Bolt Release) Rail Screw Threads Opened Up to 8/40 (Action Re-Blued) Shilen Alternut Installed BDL, Accepts Standard AICS 3901 & 3902 Magazines 26" Shilen Match Barrel (4 Groove Rachet Rifling) Twist: 1:7.5 Chambered by Shilen in 22 Creedmoor This is known as a barrel log. If you are gun-savy and have a barrel vise, a Savage barrel nut wrench and the corresponding chambers' Go gauge, you have everything you need to correctly change your Savage barrel. Most states would not allow it as lacking sufficient energy. I'm currently shooting a rifle I built with a Bartlein 1:7.7 twist M24 taper with a Brownells Stryker Ridge action (made by Defiance) in a Manners EH1. . 22 Creedmoor, What, Why & How? - LoadDevelopment.com This item can be shipped to United States. On coyotes and varmints on the other hand, fire away! Evidently they have a thin jacket. This is a distinct step up in performance. This is not true, but rather it is a calculation used to estimate the point at which accuracy will noticeably decline, which may be a steady and slow yet progressive declination if precautionary measures are taken. Want to become an expert on reloading, or just gain the knowledge needed to get started, here is a list of the best reloading books available. The 6.5 Creedmoor is Not the Ultimate Super Cartridge I ran the numbers on the 45-70 I carried to Africa last year. You must log in or register to reply here. The 22-250 will have a much shorter barrel life than the 6.5 CM. Shilen: SA Remington 700 Barreled Action, 26" 22 Creedmoor, A17 Cm case has greater volume, so 250 ammo should not pose a pressure concern. I built one after reading this and other articles. 28 Nosler vs 6.5 Creedmoor - Long Range Hunting Cartridge Comparison The 6.5 Creedmoor also has a distinct advantage over the .308 at long ranges where there's little time to make wind decisions. Since individual rifles can vary I dont know whether it was wear or not. Furthermore, allowing the barrel to cool between strings of fire will also help extend your barrel life. This item is in the category "Sporting Goods\Hunting\Gun Parts\Rifle". I've worked up a couple different loads with slower powders. If you want to run light bullets fast, just build a 20 tactical and run the 32gn v-max at 4100. Note, I shoot without stopping so much so that bullets will discolor sitting in the chamber. This rifle is an absolute nightmare on Coyotes, Feral Hogs, Prairie Dogs, and Whitetail Deer. And barrels cost less than new truck tires! How to Estimate Range with the Mil-Dot Reticle. Even "shot-out" barrels in an infamous barrel burner like the 220 Swift are usually in excellent condition at the cooler muzzle end. BAck in the 70s we used to shoot 85gr Sierra hollow point boat tail bullets in our 6mm Rems. For me, I just built a custom 22-250AI VERY close case capacity similarity to the 22 creedmoor. This is my favorite rifle, too. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. Nothing changes..heavy vs super light! Lets use the following .300 Winchester Magnum loads to demonstrate. 6.5 Creedmoor vs 308: Ultimate Guide | Bear Creek Arsenal Expect to spend $0.95 per round and up [ED: mid 2020 prices now start at about $140 a round]. Using 1000 yards as a distance benchmark, the 6mm CM drops 8.1 mils, and the 6.5 CM with the Hornady 147 ELD-M drops 8.7 mils. Varget, H4350, and H1000 are the most common powders used with the 22 Creedmoor. The 22 Creedmoor is quickly establishing itself as the go-to big 22cal. You can use a full length (no bushing) sizing die to go from 6mm all the way to 22cal in one step, so long as the die is of good quality. I have some R26 and R23 that I want to try. ammo review, The 22, not-so-obvious to some and obvious to others, stands for the bore diameter of the barrel, more specifically actually a .224 or 5.7mm bullet diameter. Extremely stable and very accurate across a great many firings. Thanks for the informative story! Name Phone Number Email Message We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to amazon.com and affiliated sites. Farthest was about 140yds, bullet still passed completely through, exiting through the far shoulder on a quartering away shot. Related Tags: 22 Creedmoor is also often mispelled as 22 Creedmoore or Creedmore, it is also often called the 22 6.5 Creedmoor denoting the main 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge that it was developed from. I got an update from Bob at Alpha Munitions (alphamunitions.com). Survival Gear . Creedmoor, Just thought I'd update here. Your email address will not be published. The original 6XC chambering was designed based off the usage of 22-250 brass which typically has a web diameter in the range of .461-.463. I think so, the 22 Creedmoor is a great shooting cartridge and the Meredith rifle shoots amazing. Then along comes the new Creedmore offerings and the shooting world makes me feel like time has passed me by. Made to order we strive for a 2-3 week turn time when blanks are on hand (please email/call for current availability), we get Bartlein blanks weekly so lead times do vary. These general guidelines apply more to the older traditional calibers when speeds were much lower, and with modern cartridge advances, the velocities achieved by modern smaller calibers make up for the energy lost in mass of the bullet, and the modern twist rates allows low drag bullets to carry those velocities and energy further down range. Ensure correct methods of cleaning and maintenance. This is starting to become my go to gun for general purpose hunting and gong competitions. The long slender bullets have good sectional density, so they will easily get the penetration needed to reach the vitals of thin-skinned medium game. At this point we can say that it has reached the end of its barrel life, and seek a replacement. www.greentophuntfish.com Then too there was always the discussion of barrel life, and cases with lots of body taper and shallow shoulder angles tend to tear up throats. The primary culprit in a centerfire rifle that affects accuracy is an eroded throat, however the rest of the bore and/or rifling can wear too. It makes for an excellent test platform when chambered in 6mm Creedmoor. Well, it seems opinions are mixed, and you know what they say about opinions. A MAGPUL magazine well kit was added. Top 10 Tricks Extend Barrel Life Ron Spomer Outdoors So, it is definitely more than just the energy numbers that is important. Handloading, You will certainly NEED many more, if just to point out to others the importance of diff bore sizes, stock styles, etc..even if you NEVER shoot them! The TSXs in my experience have been overperformers, big time. For reference, I shoot 155's at about 3030 fps in my .308's, and generally take them off at about 3500 rounds. Many readers misinterpret our article on barrel life; assuming that were estimating the exact number of rounds until a shot-out barrel. Gotta love the experts who denounce new cartridges as useless just because they own something similar. Several years later and the 22 Creedmoor has completely established itself among my 22 cal firearms. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. There are many factors that determine the number of shots a barrel can take before the lands and rifling become worn to a point where the accuracy suffers. I know that huge advances in rifles has taken place since the 1970s. A word of caution though, at the speeds delivered by the 75, 80 or 90gr bullets in this cartridge, combined with the expansion ability of ballistic tipped bullets, you should rather aim for head shots to prevent meat damage when hunting deer or other animals for meat, and not at all when hunting for trophies, we have seen this same 75gr bullet that cleanly took down the Zebra above, also remove the top half of a Impalas head on another occasion.