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Did he write (with $200k ResultSource juice job) a Best-Seller on His Humility (chuckle chuckle)? They have a very different take on the fulfillment of prophecy that you may enjoy learning as a contrast with your own beliefs. If I were Satan I would give the Wormwood who came up with that system a big raise (or give away their books so theyd get a fat royalty check ; ). You cant speak in tongues? Its all PR spin, because they got caught with their (or, pardon the metaphor, MDs) pants down. http://mercysurvivors.com/2014/03/06/mercy-ministries-peru-309k-and-no-cherry/#more-1348. Also, as Driscolls friend, John Piper, wrote: pastors are not professionals. I do hope he finds wholeness. Unless of course, they give up the celebrity/money/position and go into obscurity getting real jobs. But I am also free to point out his behavior looks sociopathic if one has spent enough time looking into sociopathic behaviors. Now the shock will be realizing how far theyve strayed from those virtues. They noted that since the pandemic began, they have taken very stringent precautions at each service, including: take temperatures at the door, fog-sanitize their auditorium, sanitize the childrens areas and common areas multiple times daily and provide masks to everyone who attends. jamesriver.org [email protected] (417) 581-5433; At James River Assembly we're focused.Upward in Worship, Inward in Commitment and Outward in Evangelism. your comments are great. I read somewhere that the church that bought, I think, the main campus property has a female pastor. I think it underestimates those believers in the pews who are, themselves, filled with the Spirit and do exhibit the fruit of Galations 5. Im not kidding. Help keep The Christian Post free for everyone by making a one-time donation today. He further states: A door was closed to who I was and a door was opened to who I became. I can't help but wonder whether Driscoll is talking about Paul or himself. What in the world could someone with his outlandish views contribute to conferences at Hillsong or James River? You cant speak in tongues? But over time became desensitized and swept up in group-think so as to eventually accept it as acceptable in the 21st century. Dont give into his deception. Im not saying that I don't believe anyone, I really just want to learn the other side of this argument. Then the authentic community unravels like a cheap Walmart sweater. Unfortunately, during this difficult season, the focus has been taken off of Jesus and put on me, and that is not what The ROC is all about., http://www.richmond.com/news/local/crime/article_8c6b7719-c4af-523b-b3a6-3c6131e32fd3.html. i think bills reply echos mine mostly, if your question is what church should look like if we are all clergy. They may have been totally shocked when Mark began to spew his rude, humiliating, oppressive descriptions and warped perceptions of scripture and men and women. Even his outrageous speak was a game where he would then delete then repent then do againshampoo, rinse, repeat. Stephens, in my opinion, has gone to great lengths to keep his position on the ordinance incomprehensible. By and large, our local churches have been great examples of staying emotionally connected while protecting one another in this pandemicthis example does not do those congregations justice., I stg we're the dumbest country in world. I have read both accounts that Che was short for Chancho and also a play on his habitually calling everyone che which is slang for pal/friend etc. He faces re-election April 7. I hope you encourage them to visit TWW. His auto suggestive words were a dead give away! starts with: Did he have liveried Armorbearers blowing long trumpets before him to announce how HUMBLE(TM) he was (chuckle chuckle)? Pews are in the old megas. excerpts from rob smiths post :https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/. That got my attention as I was reading the comments yesterday evening. Just watch any random hour of TBN or Daystar. mode. Q. Are you not voting? was an attention getter. where is Mark Driscolls apology to over a thousand children in two orphanages? Thanks for that recommendation. His most shocking was when just before he stepped down from the pulpit and was in the midst of many scandals, he did a sermon on the many mistakes of Jesus. They are used to being believed no matter what they say. They sing and wave their arms and hug and praise other givers. The Lord had more to say about gall through His servant Jeremiah: Jeremiah 23:13-17 . It is anguish because i love them, and see the pain of all three of them. ( a stage really ) Same old spin .different tune. I asked people who were about as famous (if that is what you call it) as him what they thought. We need to be just absolutely rigorously adherent to things that we know work. now it seems that it has just gone to big business making a dollar off of Jesus name and some easy to quote scriptures. Not much time has passed since he stepped down. It probably did. All the more reason that Driscoll appears arrogant and pompous to me and doesnt at all seem to understand the damage hes caused. In his introductory remarks, he spoke of Marks kindness, humility, and genuine interest in people. He looked at me kindly and slightly amused and said, thats okay. Didnt God send a vision or angel to some other guy, or a dream to him, and tell him about Paul, that Paul could be trusted? Pastors who give Mark Driscoll a platform are adding to the abuse of those of us who were abusively treated by Mars Hill Church. Mark Driscoll should not be a preacher ever again. "It was clear to me that Mark's attendance had the potential to divert attention from the real purpose of Hillsong Conference, which is to see people leave encouraged in their own spiritual journey.". The opposition is to Jesus. It genuinely didnt occur to me that he was just a good, decent man who might care about Gods children regardless of their zip code. Yes he was forgiven, but be spent years away from his former life, maybe to relearn what Christ Jesus was about. This was not due to the kindness of the elders (who told us we could not leave because we were under church discipline). Or is it just a GW thing? Here is the gist of Driscolls message: its all about me and Im a martyr for the faith!, Same old Driscoll, full of male bovine meadow muffins. I am someone special, like Jesus and Paul. They will promise to give you an authentic community to do life with. In a statement to the Ozarks Independent, James River Church said it has taken temperatures at the door, sanitized its children's areas and common areas multiple times per day, provided masks. One of six. Having heard MDs messages for several years now, I believe he is trying to lead people into thinking its about him. It so important, huh, that we share that Jesus came to save us from sin, and to give us His life. I did disagree, however, with this one sentence. He screamed and swore. Christian geneticist and U.S. National Institutes of Health Director Francis Collins suggested most churches should postpone in-person services due to COVID-19 until at least summer 2021, when every American is expected to have had the opportunity to get vaccinated, The Christian Post recently reported. (KY3) - OZARK, Mo. :o) I would view it like this: If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are worth investigating with openess and transparancy. As a result, the IRS has guidelines on their political activity. It takes at least 6 months before you start seeing things clearly. I need to talk to the president, he may be unaware what some of his professors are teaching. Who would have thought that the message of the Cross for ALL people (the whosoever wills) would be diminished in pentecostal ranks?! I take it to mean: Don't feel so bad, there are whole lot of other people hell-bound, too. i havent seen any video or statement where he has actually apologized for anything except being mean when he should have been nicer in throwing people under the bus, shoulda offered them a pillow maybe so they didnt hit the ground so hard, but totally right in throwing them. I want to know what is so bad about the church and why people dislike it. . But the Pipers, Mohlers, Akins and others saw him as someone really catching the attention of the young guystheir followers. During this pandemic, we have helped thousands of people with food, financial assistance, counsel, and. When you go to these posh country clubesque entertainment centers their #1 priority is to get visitors connected and plugged in. LOL! COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church. Even setting aside his vulgarity, what of his abusiveness, his corruption? luke was paul's dr and paul was luke's pastor. Hey Sam you may be interested in how Jews interpret the Mashiach (messiah) passages. Seems odd that Robert, Tom Lane and Jimmy Evans need to be pounding their book sales so hard when they are all getting raptured in the next 3.5 years. "This ordinance reduces freedom of religion to freedom of worship," he said. Robert Morris loves putting his flock under the law regarding Mosaic Law tithing and also under Deuteronomy so he can squeeze out extravagant gifts. that young man is in jail, he didnt receive a huge sentence and is receiving a great outpouring of care and compassion from the community. no., to forgive them prepares you to see jesus. Return to homepage. GW used to require people to take a class and understand the commitment but they couldnt keep their salvation numbers up without the spontaneous element that include giving away free clothes and smart little swag bags for those willing to dunk for the cameras. Doing well as opposed to what? But you need to make sure you hear the second truth. thats the same conclusion i came to, i think the Lord is showing us, for ourselves and others that we do need to look at fruit. (Not that I waiting with bated breath). Thats right, the head pastor no less! (This was all before the sex sermons and book.) I think Dr Fundy left out the irony/sarcasm tags introduced with HTML 5.5. It is certainly understandable we would see it differently. She came to me in sorrow that she walked away from a relationship with Agathos after that Mars Hill warning.. An event of this magnitude, indoors and in such close proximity, combined with case numbers where they are and our hospitals full, could be devastating, he said. Because for me, it is the center of the practice of Christianity, and I had missed it. I think it should lie with the one who broke the trust in the first place. John Lindell has spoken. In other words, his behavior did change. But MD has been a jerk as far as Ive read, not a criminal or anything. "I do not think, frankly, it is a matter of your business or Mr. Lindell's business or even my wife's business," Stephens told me. . This has nothing to do with the recent downfall of Mark and demise of Mars Hill. Hasnt it been around long enough that either people (especially younger guys) are sick of it, or they have finally realized its harmful or obnoxious. On the other hand though a lot of people obviously like the guy enormously and his business model for his church is pretty successful. That idea was right before the idea that they were always having to give a lot of money to the church while we have voluntary giving. jesus example they put a robe on him a mockery of his kingship. My old church Gateway has atmosphere teams in services to emotionally manipulate members and visitors. Thats why these massive megas arent likely to represent the narrow gate. Yes, I am familiar with Che and what he represents. forgiveness means its paid in full. . Members are guests? Sometimes the writers have an agenda, at others, there is more of an assumption of knowledge that the original readers/hearers possessed that we dont. You make an interesting comparison. Mark Driscoll was totally missing those things. I assumed that it was just me and 25,000 other people had no issue. that is not walking in love that is running a business, and i am not a judge. I would not say Driscoll was a jerk. But it would be encouraging if they did. Thanks for sharing your perspectives Abi Mia and Nancy, I appreciate that. then mark goes on to teach us that we must forgive even if the person never admits wrong or says I am sorry: vengance is where you make someone pay. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-07/royal-commission-child-sexual-abuse-investigates-hillsong/5795308 How far can a pastor go in preaching the gospel when it comes to a political issue? In October, he resigned as head pastor from Mars Hill, a Seattle megachurch with a Sunday attendance of 13,000. Im sure someone wittier than I can do something with his Training ourselves to sense right from wrong. When he walked up to speak with me I politely told him neednt spend time with me because I lived about 4 hours away RT and, therefore, wouldnt be attending his church again. In his sermon, Lindell cites several verses to make his No. So work harder for the state and your comrades who do not meet their quotas. And thus, I think that the only way to self regulate is to have benchmarks that people must reach to be in leadership positions. The kid starts expecting it. The youngest generation may be leaving the church in record numbers but at least they have a fighting chance of finding the real God later. It seems foolish from a marketing and business view to alienate over half your customers.. And the same shtitck but did not call them atmostphere teams but hosts. They are not good for him, and he not good for the people he leads. Connect With Us! Hospitable, Self-controlled, Holy, Disciplined, above reproach, Not quarrelsome, not violent but gentle. James River Church is located in the Springfield, MO! LT: Certainly they all hire each other as guest speakers in order to pay large honorariums from tithe dollars that end up in each others personal bank accounts. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. there is a scripture somewhere that says i wont speak against Gods annointed, which was david re saul i believe, and people have used this (or churches have used this to keep people quiet) as a reason to never say anything about church abuse. Under the circumstances, Mark Driscoll needs a time out, huh? Im guessing Driscolls trying to resurrect his career by going into Charismatic type denominations or churches. I saw many warnings but there seemed to be some explanation for most of it. He has lots of pics holding impoverished babies while his own 5 kids barely saw him. 1 point: homosexuality is a sin, according to the Bible, and Christians should vote for repeal. actually Jesus spoke to people He had healed early in His ministry and told them not to tell everyone, they did anyway and He spent the rest of His ministry having crowds pressing against Him and having to go hide sometimes. I felt like an idiot after I said that. Your mistake is in assuming that Driscoll was there to deliver a sermon. He appealed that he had no say in the matter. My Comment was Deleted I can appreciate that sentiment Gram3 and I applaud it. For those who follow celebrities, I dont, this is the church that made it into the news last year. i tweeted: He saw it as bad government.". Well, Jesus, Stephen, Paul, and Mark Driscoll. Sopy Bob, I loved your comment. Pastors that dont understand the devestation they cause by playing God in peoples lives, especially women and childrens lives, have no business calling themselves christians and certainly shouldnt be in positions where people might think they are speaking for God Himself when they tell them how to live. I didnt feel pressured. It is all choreographed and it works! what is a person supposed to do? @ Gus: http://www.standfirminfaith.com/?/sf/page/31866. I also have recently spoken to another ministry leader involved in orphan care in Africa. I cant see those photos without also thinking of the images weve all seen of the impossible circumstances our hospitals are battling every day, Goddard began in a series of tweets. http://www.richmond.com/news/local/city-of-richmond/article_4d131547-f913-5d43-bfc5-5a292f4c27e1.html, What I dont get is why Hillsong and Assemblies of God (James River Church), who have extremely different views on women in the church would even consider someone like Mark Driscoll as a special speaker. as to revenue streams, Jesus paid His taxes with money a fish popped up with. @ numo: In 2002, Agathos began as a ministry to rescue orphans in Africa during the peak of the out-of-control HIV/AIDS crisis. The Jews in Damascus want to kill him and he is snuck out of town by believers. I dont believe the above because I am wondering how many more similar stories no matter how benign, there are. It does not mean that forgiveness is lacking. When you add atmosphere teams to further manipulate peoples worship experience that is too much. As some are aware, the result of me pleading for a fair trial and arguing for due deliberation when changing bylaws was that Mark Driscoll, in an abusive and vile manner, threatened to destroy me and my ministry. Is this similar to Radical Chic? Click below for times and locations: Learn More Stronger Men's Bible Study 6am on Tuesdays | March 7th - April 11th, 2023 | All Campuses ( As with the dituation with John Mark mentioned in Acts, and the conflict with Peter mentioned in Galatians. This guy has lists on his page in bulleted form: We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. This is off topic but your question has been the basis of discussion with many associates for the last 6 months, many recently leaving an authoritarian church. They didnt fail. As a follow-up (Sydney Morning Herald 1 July 2015), Hillsong conference shows interview with controversial US Pastor, Mark Driscoll see link Based on my experience, this public story should be seen as somewhat inevitable in how they operate. Not a fan but many are. This captures precisely what I have been sensing as well. I gave Lindell a chance to respond to that tally. Maybe six months from now, therell be another terrible story, and well know that the BSd us. He was an abusing thug. Dont forget his church plant was asked to leave my kids school at the time. I have always found this aspect of Pauls story very interesting. We are dedicated to making a difference in the lives of people through relevant teaching, heartfelt worship, and amazing kids & youth programs. So start telling us exactly what in the blogosphere is false. vinegar is disinfectant for wiping yourself. They sing and wave their arms and hug and praise other givers. I try to make sure my examples reflect current GW practice which is repellent to follow but important that people understand the stuff that I am posting is happening in real time. now i am going to see if i can stand to listen to the whole mark speaks video. Bingo. Some great insights there, Bob. I think that explains a lot of it. What in the world could someone with his outlandish views contribute to conferences at Hillsong or James River? Great comment Bridget. I think many. He told me he appreciated my column and my work at the News-Leader. I acknowledge that one persons terrorist can be another persons freedom fighter. (the homes), just a few helpful links re: hillsong lol, http://www.news.com.au/national/hillsong-church-linked-to-abuse-claims/story-e6frfkp9-1111115815321. I'm in on that. Houston was saying in his statement he was only just now finding out about some of Mark Driscolls more controversial statements, and that is due to the media. When he agreed to accept an $850,000 annual pay package while other staff were being laid off due to declining offerings, was he in a fugue state, incapable of understanding what was going on? Che Guevera was a die hard Communist who actively conspired with the Soviet Union to turn America into a long nuclear winter landscape that would put Winterfell to shame. In a March 15 sermon, Lindell urged congregants to repeal Springfield's sexual orientation and gender identity law on April 7. ", Meanwhile, here's what was communicated 'Down Under' "Houston, we have a problem.". one passenger died. everything that happened at the cross was prophesied about long before Jesus was crucified, one propesy: Psalm 69:20-21 How much do James River Church employees make? Join thousands of others to get the FREEDOM POST newsletter for free, sent twice a week from The Christian Post. What Im curious though is how the church (corporate) can self regulate against that in the face of the money and power, both spiritual and temporal, that types like MD help create. Also it is not where you sit in rows and hear a weekly lecture. Why I did not run I do not know except I had a contract. this is even a bigger bad root than the bad root of complimentarianism and authorityism. It shouldnt be about raw numbers of attenders and financial statements if it is a true church. However, some of his employees and family were taken in by SBTS and seem to be doing ok. IMO, the church as a whole can help to regulate these things by exposing them and explaining how they do not reflect Christ at all. I am still finding it hard to believe that Mr. Houston doesnt have access to Google, or some other search engine, in Australia. I think the guys a jerk and theres plenty of evidence out there for it. I admit that I am rather skeptical of James River's reliability now, most of this information was new to me. Im a done for now but that one meeting made we wonder if I could someday find a narrow gate church like the cult expert said. "He saw it for what it was. I wish he would try to get a corporate communications job or something though. So as long as Driscoll can provide entertainment and ratings, Pentecostals will continue to book him. one person, after 6 months finally started to say why they didnt attend gateway anymore and it made me wonder why people dont warn others. Mr. Petry was fired and ordered to be excommunicated and shunned for his opposing Driscolls move to consolidate power in the church and not have Biblical accountability before the elders. like i said it went away from that and i didnt look into why. plausible they shoved that in jesus mouth, with that taste on his lips. (the death of Jesus on the cross as written in the bible is not enough, mark adds something more exciting and sickening like they shoved an a##-wipe sponge in Jesus mouth.) The term was invented by Tom Wolfe back in the 70s to describe the superficial gliteratti associating with revolutionary thugs as a way to prove their bonafides. Im trying to get people to understand it because theres a whole lot of stuff thats out there thats being said, much of it is just just simply not even close to truth. mark chose to step down not mark was removed. forgiveness means its paid in full. He threatened to make sure that I could never be in ministry again. 33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, 34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink. Youre not trying hard enough! These Pentecostals keep insisting that almost everything written on the internet about Mark Driscoll isnt even close to the truth. Albuquerque Blue reminded me of something about mark driscoll during the fall. Do I hope they change? Are you not reporting instant healing to keep the confirmed miracle count up? since we are all clergy??? http://godsbreath.net/2007/11/07/qualifications-for-pastors/, A few items: A preacher is not to be- How to Resign from a Church Lindell hit two main points: the Bible is clear in its condemnation of homosexuality as sin and the ordinance is an infringement on the religious rights of Christians who believe so. I arrived a little late here, and this has likely already been mentioned (I havent read all comments). I sincerely hope Mark Driscoll's remarks are about this specific passage and not about himself. Sam, I sincerely hope that nothing Ive written ever makes you rethink your relationship with God. Let me look it up. @Albuquerque Blue I hope you found some of the above helpful. But I did find this on the IRS website: A tax-exempt organization "may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.". The worst thing in the world right now for Chandler is that Mark is in making the Christian news cycle. The last time Robert Morris met and greeted anyone as part of his service he still had his braces/retainer on. Wow! Gramp3 and I were recalling today the first time we ever heard Driscolls name brought up in a church. I want to know how I was deceived. And yes, Baptists and other evangelicals have evolved to believing similar using other methods of mediation for people. love to hear that sermon. I followed up on the link and have been sharing this song with families and friends! this discussion you make today determines your destiny, God wants you to forgive. Youd think theyd feel a sense of civic duty there. Otherwise, its authentic shunning for you. What Mark Driscoll Told Brian Houston at Hillsong Conference (updated) "It is possible for someone who has practiced a life of adultery to stop," he said in the sermon. hes a wonderful pastor to the very end. @wartwatch Not even the milk toast "We regret if anyone was offended"? The Rev. The City of Ozark has an established process in place to investigate, enforce, and educate violators of the ordinance, the department said before stating that it does not condone the flouting of health mandates. But forgiveness doesnt mean he should ever be in the same position in a church again. appeciate your posts and the others on this blog. I would say he was a tyrannical charlatan that used people for his own purposes and claiming it was of Christ. He did it from one of the most powerful places in Southwest Missouri the pulpit of James River Church, where he leads an Assemblies of God congregation that often tops 9,000 worshipers on. In your mega travels, Lydia, whats the biggest honorarium from tithe dollars you have been privy to? I see him as a conference speaker on a different circuit. The question is not, Can he be forgiven? but rather Should he be trusted in a position of power over peoples lives? I would guess that many of the people who have been directly harmed by him have forgiven him. mark is finally preaching more accurately who Jesus is and the fact that salvation is found in Jesus but then he goes off into marks interpretation of the bible as usual. I started to ask myself, If Christ is present in someones life, and therefore the Spirit, will not God, in his infinite power, begin to produce those things in that person? And I began to wonder if Mark Driscoll even possessed the Spirit of God. I asked people who were about as famous (if that is what you call it) as him what they thought. So, if he became a member of a church, attended that for a while, accepting to do all kinds of unglamorous jobs that church members often do for their church, apprenticed with a pastor in a mainline church, where the position of pastor has a lot less power, tried to reconcile with the people he treated the worst well, maybe. Working at James River is never be boring because of the mission that you are pursuing and the amazing things that you get to be a part of. Thats why I would use a better example: If you knew that someone is a recovering alcoholic, would you employ him as a barkeeper? Yes, I am familiar with Che and what he represents. here is a bit of what i could type out as he was speaking, would love to see a transcript of it instead of having to listen to it though. He did it from one of the most powerful places in Southwest Missouri the pulpit of James River Church, where he leads an Assemblies of God congregation that often tops 9,000 worshipers on Sundays. James River Church - Wikipedia I wouldnt want to walk in his shoes and succumb to the large amount of pride he exhibits, what an empty way to live. How can they do that? Mark was talking about Mark. Excellent comment! Questions about James River Church : r/springfieldMO - reddit Thats why places like TWW are imperative. Are you not reporting instant healing to keep the confirmed miracle count up? https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/. Barnabus is the hero of this story that gets little press. He is a draw. i have been ousted from 6 churches already and at first i took it as me being in error and not able to understand the bible or what the Lord had called me to be like but now i am able to see that i can trust the still small voice inside and the Holy Spirit to give me understanding of the scriptures without having to run it by a pastor somewhere.