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*$3,245 does not include any Hard Part damage, Torque Converter or TCM/ECM tuning. So, what's the unique problem with the 6L80, 6L90 converter found in full-size vehicles? The torque converter is a fluid turbine drive and - like those on its predecessor transmissions, the TH350C, 700R4, 4L60, and 4L80E - features a lock-up pressure plate for direct mechanically coupled driving from the engine crank. The 6L80 has surprised us power transmission aficionados with its wholesale adoption of new and very different technologies. Become a 6L80-E and 6L90-E expert now! At this point, the converter rebuilder is faced with either finding another core that he hopes will have good components or purchasing a Sonnax forged cover GM-CC-13 and forged piston GM-DA-17P. However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a36 spline. That way you get a longer service life, along with a 3-year/Unlimited Mile Nationwide Warranty.. Larry Callahan Founder/Administrator of Pro-Touring.com, G-Machines.com and HostMyJunk.com To advertise on Pro-Touring.com click here However, it is a long transmission and is not compatible with short-wheelbase Jeeps such as the CJ5. Tenth 0.64 As we have all learned with other units, very often the root cause of a converter clutch failure stems from a failure within the electro/hydraulic controls from the transmission. The GM 10L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is one such hybrid component that General Motors jointly developed with, wait for it, the Ford Motor Company! Both 2wd and 4wd versions of the 6L80 can be used equally well, and there are no inherent advantages to either one once you have installed our adapter assembly. Its the best of both worlds. ! Eighth 0.85 The 6L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is a 6 speed automatic transmission manufactured by General Motors. Developed with upgraded internal components, Chevrolet Performance's SuperMatic 6L80-E 6-speed automatic transmission offers an exceptional torque rating of 650 lb.-ft. - a 45 percent increase over regular production versions of the 6-speed automatic. Finished in a durable and corrosion-resistant clear anodize. Customers' pictures and movies from drag racing competitions. Upon full inspection, the unit is loaded with metal, and the pump (bell housing) is worn to the point of needing remachining or replacement. This pan fits the GM 6L90, 6L90E transmission, typically found on these vehicles: . From the workshop on ongoing projects and more, and where the new images are added afterwards. or Best Offer . 2nazty New Member. only) '72-'79, Small Block V8, Gen. The Ford 10R80 has a fill plug and dipstick on the passenger side of the case like the 6R80 transmission. Indirectly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling. They dealership gave Brian their opinion of what was making the noise. Production Began 2017 It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. The TCM is actually even programmed to adjust its operation for transmission clutch wear. As a transmission rebuilder, you know that flatness and rigidity of both apply and reaction surfaces are key to long clutch life in transmission clutch packs its the exact same in the torque converter. Ford considers this to be a normal condition! It is currently phasing out the 6L80/6L90 transmissions (although it hasn't done its all the way yet. Hi Jeff, I have a 2016 Silverado with the 5.3 and the 8 speed transmission. all that is needed is a Throttle position signal and Engine RPM. This means that its designed for rear wheel drive vehicles only. Application RWD & 4WD / AWD If the warmer is not mounted to the transmission, refer to factory information to locate it. Recommended fluid is Dexron VI and it typically accepts a 10 quart thru 12.6 quart fill depending on its application. About 80% of issues are cured by updating the programming. January 2022 Jason, MAZDA6 shuts down while driving fuel pump not monitored, may be no engine light etc. Had transmission rebuilt (Pro).My problem is that when it gets around 35, 8L90E Specs, Performance, and Identification, TH400 Transmission Specs, ID, and Common Problems, Mazda 6 P0320: Meaning, Causes, & Diagnosis. document.write("- "+yr); Shift stabilization is achieved through these and similar strategies. My problem with the 4L80E is it was always a workhorse and in the past 25-30 years trucks have gotten much quicker and versatile. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. All I can find is that it is sealed from the rear and just needs a new tail housing but some say its got to be completely rebuilt from the inside. Our simulations reveal that this is worth anywhere from 0.10 to perhaps 0.15-second in a quarter-mile comparison between a stock 4L80E and a TCI Six-Speed. I think the extra gears and the taller overdrive would be nice but I wonder if it's worth all the effort. The 6l80E transmission are the same through the entire line with changes made thru production in electronics. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle starts from a complete stop. If you know the RPO code for the transmission you are golden. Check out delicious pictures and movies from Peter Mrup, Dennis Andersson and Svein Pedersen. Cadillac CT5 2021 MHS Automatic 10L80 Transmission 10-Speed 24294949 AWD 2427812. GM 6L80 and 6L90 units are now starting to reach their prime age in the repair cycle, and techs across the country are starting to see a consistent pattern of transmission failures with full-size 6L80, 6L90 vehicles. Sonnax is an industry leader in the cutting edge design, manufacture and distribution of the highest quality products to the automotive aftermarket, commercial vehicle industries, and industrial sectors utilizing drivetrain technology. Genuine ICT Billet - Bolts Made in USA!!!! var d=new Date(); or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. After graduating from Iowa State University with a journalism degree in 1978, he combined his two passions: cars and writing. The Nightmare on Oak Street: A hunt for 4L30E electrical problems How. Required fields are marked *. For now, the bulk of reported cases are related to diesel vehicles. GM LS1 - LS9 / Chrysler Gen III and Viper V10, Conversion. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. RATIOS 4.70, 2.99, 2.15, 1.80, 1.52, 1.28, 1.00, .85, .69, .64. 2. Aisin AY6 6-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. To be honest, we arent 100% sure of the real reason for JMBX cover and piston failure, but we do have a theory. Sixth 1.28 should check for clearance. How quickly time passes by. The idler gear itself has two threaded holes opposite each other for the use of a puller (see figure 1, above). and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. But once he had the parts and the job was complete, the noise issue was resolved, confirming the cause to be the idler gear spinning around the ball bearings outer race. Getrag 260 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Getrag. Double-step (skipping a gear) upshifts results when a longer time is spent in gear. This wavy nature of the clutch surface is made worse with many miles of usage. This is the abridged version of my problem. Seventh 1.00 Put simply, its the converter. Thought's? For instance, transmission techs with any time under their belts can tell you all about 3-4 clutch failure in GM 4L60-Es, intermediate stub shaft failure in Ford 4R70Ws and solenoid issues in Aisin AW 55-50s. The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that were closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. But I was su unhappy with it I sold a bunch of parts and began changing the built. These solenoids are directly proportional in that zero current equals zero pressure, and maximum current equals maximum pressure. Its a little tough to see, but the thickness of the pistons is also different. In doing this, we evaluated another GM unit the 4L60-E TMBX to see if we could pick up any clues. And now, with some of these transmissions coming out of warranty, the aftermarket will soon begin to see issues that occur with them beyond their first years of life during their aging process. Jeff Smith: The TCI six-speed automatic is indeed a revamped or upgraded 4L80E. After programming, perform the Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle and reevaluate the vehicle. By the time a converter rebuilder opens up a JMBX, the damage is done, and it can be hard to see what happened first. Solution This 10L80 transmission problem could be the result of a failed oil cooler line fitting retaining bolt. check the starter bendix and see if its loose and bouncing off the flywheel. Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: The 10R80 has ten forward speeds, one reverse speed produced through the following components: The 10R80 utilizes six shift solenoids that are listed by the factory as A-F and are linear force solenoids (Figure 1). Established Member. All Rights Reserved. Reply. Page 2 August, 2019 Bulletin No. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. The factory clutch apply piston has a sharp, square edge that does not completely apply force across the entire clutch piston. Lots of good information I do have one question That no one seems to be able to give a good answer to. Thread starter 2nazty; Start date Nov 26, 2018; Nov 26, 2018 #1 2. I'd be modding it to a FBO car with cam and converter eventually. In any event, precise coordinate measuring (CMM scans) of a variety of JMBX covers shows that the covers are wavy and have undulations on the clutch surface, especially opposite of the welded cover pads. Since buying the car I have been trying to learn a bit about the auto trans. Looking for parts number : new shaft, copling et seal and where to find them. Beginning in 2010, all 2500 and 3500 Express / Savana with a 4.8L or 6.0L engine used the 6L90 transmission. As a result, it became a popular choice despite sharing most of its internal components with its predecessor, the 700R4. Transmission Pan Bolt Set Chevy 6L80E 6L90E 8L80E 8L90E 10L80E 10L90E 18pcs. : 18-NA-355 Special Tools DT-52263 Transmission Fluid Exchange Kit: DT-52263-1 Block Assembly (includes fluid drain The 6L80 in its transaxle version for the Corvette. * 10L90E TRANSMISSION. Thought's? Also, Im not sure if the trans will allow converter lockup at WOT. The 6L90 has a beefier set of gears and many internal upgrades. Copyright 2023 - Transmission Repair Cost Guide. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. As an example, combining the TCI Six-speeds 2.97:1 First gear with a 3.50:1 rear gear ratio is equal to a traditional TH-400 (or stock 4L80E) with a 4.19:1 rear gear. Given the complexity of the TCM control strategy, the engineers made every effort to allow for partial operation of the unit under most failure conditions. Lets talk about some of the concerns and fixes we have been seeing. I see where Summit Racing lists a TCI transmission that was originally a 4L80E but they list it as a six-speed transmission. The Ford 10R80 is a new 10-speed, rear wheel drive transmission that's available in several models, beginning in 2017. Members So its no wonder that the new cars accelerate so welltheyve got a ridiculously deep overall First gear ratio and reduced rpm drops between the gear changes. Account. The new 2019 Camaro gets the a10 but, Its not the a10 (10L90) from the ZL1. The transmission is automatically shifted featuring performance algorithms to minimize upshifts during closed throttle driving to prevent unnecessary shifting. Automatic Options - 4L60 and 4L60E. How quickly time passes by. By combining a wide 7.39 overall gear ratio spread, with smaller steps between each gear, this GM 10-speed automatic transmission is able to keep the engine in its ideal power band during acceleration. As these units accumulate more mileage, these concerns may become more frequent. There may or may not be codes associated with these complaints. Thats pretty much all thats to it. Your car is quick! The 6L90 transmission is slightly longer and taller than a comparable configuration 6L80 due to its beefier internals. TCRA Annual Seminar Coming to Charlotte this April! 4. 6L80E Specs The 6L80 is a robust transmission and can handle a ton of power. 2018 YUKON DENALI 64K ON THE MILES HAS A CLICKING NOISE AT A IDLE LIKE A CRACKED FLYWHEEL OR SOMETHING BOUNCING IN THE PAN CHEVY PUT NEW EXHAUST ON IT THINKING IT WAS IN THE CONVERTER ALSO PUT A NEW PUMP IN THE TRANS THIS SOUND IS NOT THE SAME EVERY TIME SOUNDS LIKE A BOUNCING BOLT SINCE THE PUMP WAS IN STALLED NOW SEEMS TO OLY MAKE NOISE WHEN WARMED UP MY SON IS A TRANSMISSION MAN HE SAYS IT A SOUND THEY MAKE WHEN THEY ARE SUCKING AIR NOT SURE ON THAT I WAS A MECHANIC FOR MANY MANY YEARS CANT FIGURE THIS OUT NOR CAN GM ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ? With REVolution, your transmission becomes an integral, critical part of your combination, allowing you to maximize its performance using either the Quick 6, Quick 4, or Quick 2 controller. What is most welcome about it is that it is a very durable, functional and impressive transmission assembly and appears to have a terrific prospect with GM and the aftermarket community. This drives up the price of the rebuilt converter, but ensures that this kind of failure wont happen again. Trying to decide if its worth upgrading for the 10L80 alone. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. The overall First gear ratio is deeper at 2.97:1 which means the car builder can leave a taller rear gear ratio in the rear end and still have great First gear acceleration. - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series. Do you thing the 10L80 can be beefed up using 10L90 parts? By utilizing more gearing, the 6L80 keeps the car in its power band longer, improving the MPG of the vehicle between 4-7% (over the previous generation fours speed transmissions) depending on the configuration of the vehicle that its in. Respectfully, Len Gilbert Kitchener ON Canada. $ 439.00 Select options. Much akin to the GM 10L80-E & 10L90-E transmissions is the 10R80 transmission's oil pump. Sometimes, finding the cause of a complaint isnt as straightforward as one would expect; sometimes, these causes can be very elusive. Jeff Smith has had a passion for cars since he began working at his grandfather's gas station at the age 10. One needs to realize that the stamped covers are not all that flat to begin with. In addition to developing innovative, quality repairs for transmissions, Sonnax is also the premier, full-line supplier of components to the torque converter remanufacturing industry. and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. That year, for the first time, the 10R80 ten-speed transmission was available with the 2.7-liter EcoBoost V6, 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6, or 5.0-liter Coyote V8 engine options and was even an option with their popular Raptor model. Gears Magazine I have a 2012 Corvette Grand Sport Auto trans. Some Tahoe and Yukon HD 6.0L, not hybrid, may also have this transmission but most have 6L80 or a 10 speed 10L80. Since 2003, Jeff has held various positions at Car Craft (including editor), has written books on small block Chevy performance, and even cultivated an impressive collection of 1965 and 1966 Chevelles. Sonnax has a line of upgrade parts that address some of the 6L80 and 6L90 transmission weaknesses. Brake very gently to a complete stop and hold the foot brake for five (5) seconds. The transmission can also signal the engine to drop power during a shift if there's a possibility of clutch damage. Your cooperation with this program is greatly appreciated. Its only about a 3/4-inch band around the inside circumference of the converter. For the 4L60-E TMBX, the pistons are .115" thick, and for the 6L80, 6L90 JMBX, the pistons are significantly thicker at .150". Starting with the 2017 Ford F-150, the 10R80 transmission was an option. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. GM LS1 - 9 and Chrysler/Mopar Gen III & Viper V10, Chevrolet Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Chrysler Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Ford Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Torque Converters with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4L65E Stage II - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E Frn Std till 1000Hp version, 6L80E / 6L90E From Stock to 1000Hp version. Its extremely important to scan all modules for codes and address those codes first! You know where this is going yup, its the converter. RECALLS! Homepage: Garage: Wiki: Register: Community: Calendar: Today's Posts: Search: #Camaro6 . A remanufactured 10L80 on the other hand, is completely remanufactured, and its designed to exceed the manufacturers original specifications. Copyright 2012 The 6L80 features a generously deep first gear for an automatic, making for favorably powerful starts from a standing stop. 2024 Mustang Prices Are Out, Dark Horse Is . 6R80E Chevy Transmission Kit ATI has the first true externally controlled, 6-speed transmission package for your Chevrolet powered vehicle! Although the basic engineering is the same, the GM 10L80 and Ford 10R80 each have proprietary control software, along with a few other differences that are suited for each specific application. Always inspect the sump for possible evidence of debris that could indicate the pump drive gears could be failing. It can also be found in the Lincoln Navigator. Made of billet aluminum with included swivel -6 AN fittings with 3/8" barbs. Upon a test drive and a scan, code P0741 is noted and the percentage of TCC slip shows to be way out of range. 6L80E Torque Converter Power Raptor Full Size Non-Billet Number 88-6L80-1, now with Billet Cover Option. Commanded engine torque: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. 2020 10l80 4wd an I one to convert to 2wd. You might run into a lack of valve body repair options. Its a single-disc, non-captive clutch unit that is somewhat similar to late 300mm 4L60-E converters. Please help>> I have a 2013 GMC yukon. Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: August 8, 2022. Looking at the two different front covers from the OUTSIDE, they are very similar, with just a few minor differences (Figure 2). Related Articles Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission Solving, This article applies to Chrysler RFE, RLE and TES transmissions that utilize pressure control solenoids (PCS) for line pressure control. 97 it's a, I have a 2007 h3 hummer base model. Wait 1 second. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. The General Motors 6L80-E & 6L90-E transmissions are among the most diverse and capable transmissions of their time; being used in everything from exciting muscle cars to family SUV's. In this Drivetrain 101, we'll analyze all of its most prolific problems, solutions and upgrades. Related Articles ATI introduces new e-clutch hub for ZF8HP51 Sonnax adds new stator support bushing for Ford 6F35 Alto adds to intermediate clutch PowerPack line for GM transmissions According to Sonnax, the heavy OE LFS, GFX announced a new pump component for GM Powerglide models, covering several vintage model years: 1950 through 1973. Be aware of your output shaft version before proceeding with any adaptation. It is a dog in the summer time. But it does take a bit of experience to not damage anything on the valve body or inside the . As transmission builders know, it can be difficult to determine a root cause when you are looking at a catastrophic failure, with rotating parts crashing into each other. Ive heard a little about thisdid they add two more gears to the transmission? At part pedal, when acceleration is brisk, single-step upshifts would result in very frequent shift events (a very short time in gear). The transmission typically accepts a 6.3 quart fill. Shop Finder 1) Centerline of engine and transmission are the same on LS block and all trans that mount to it. It's a longitudinal transmission (that's what the L in 6 L 80E stands for). NonStop-Transmission. Fourth 1.80 The traditional small-block six-bolt bellhousing pattern is the best and easiest way to identify a 4L60E style transmission if you find one at the swap meet for sale. Applications. Is the out put shaft and splines on a 4L80E the same as a turbo 400? So my suggestion is to not subject the lockup to that amount of abuse. By reducing the rpm drop between gears, the engine remains within its power band. 2) Trans vertical position is the same on 200-4R,700R4,4L60,4L65,70E,6L80E. The 10R80 transmission is a 10-speed, rear-wheel-drive transmission that is controlled by a PCM or a TCM. There are five main inputs the vehicle uses for transmission shift strategy, they are: The Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle must be performed after any of the following procedures are performed: Perform the adaptive learning drive cycle on a level road surface as follows: After the final step, place the vehicle in park and cycle the ignition key off. But the replacement of this assembly requires new bolts. I work on other peoples vehicles for a living. Stock capacity . Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? For a type A code, the MIL will illuminate after one drive cycle with the malfunction present. Both covers have very similar profiles and thicknesses, and you would not expect that one would be any more prone to flex or distortion than the other. In the TMBX, the damper is on the transmission side of the clutch piston, and in the JMBX, the damper is located on the engine side of the piston. The 6L80, adapted and ready for a Jeep Dana 300 and the Jeep New Process transfer cases. The replacement solenoid band number must match the band number of the solenoid being replaced.